Hi Bruce,
Thanks for your reply. I do not agree with students who use “student visa” as an easy route for working purposes or other reasons. I feel that I have learned a lot about the bogus colleges and bogus students in this blog and from your answers. I personally do not have any experience about bogus colleges, fake document, scams, and bogus students. So I will not talk about point 1-7.
Though you gave me all good reasons about why you think IELTS Band 6 is appropriate, I am still not convinced. How about the genuine students?
Let me tell you my story. I hated study English in school. My parents paid a lot of fee for me to study at good language schools and British council in Thailand. I skipped my classes. I hated it. I thought it was boring and I never ever thought that I would understand a film when I watched without subtitles. Before I started my second year at university in my country, I was lucky enough to be granted student visa and came to study English language in the UK. My English was pre-intermediate. My understanding was limited. I felt that I needed to develop myself. By the end of the trip (6 months), I think I could understand more than I first came. I started learning from everyday life such as grocery shop, food stalls near the beach, news paper, and radio. I went back to my country with confidence to study English. Unless I had come to the UK, I would not ever start to like study English. Though I tried to learn more English in my country, the resources were limited. British Council classes still were not fun like English in my class in the UK. I did not have any inspiration to speak to fellow students in the class in English as we all speak the same language. Two years later, I went to study in Australia. I can confirm that I prefer my class in Australia rather than classes in my country. I think genuine students should have be given an opportunity to experience life overseas or study in environment that they can use English all the time.
After I graduated, my salary was 20% higher than others by presenting my certificates and experience overseas. I think it is totally from English language as my grades were not really good. I could tell all my life stories but the whole point is the first study trip in the UK has opened my eyes to the world and it was a good start in my life after university.
My opinion
1. Classes from language schools in their foreign countries may not inspire students enough to study though the quality has been accredited by British council. In some countries, there is social acceptance for students who has been educated overseas. I think foreign students should have their choices to choose to study overseas. Will you be on students’ shoes? You are teaching international students, have you ever sit down and have a chat with one of your students about why they love English class in the UK. I bet there should be at least one of your students who are a genuine student.
2. I think “IETLS Band 6 is too high to set as a standard for international students who want to come to study English as a foreign language.
“Band 6: Competent user: has generally effective command of the language despite some inaccuracies and misunderstandings. Can use and understand fairly complex language, particularly in familiar situations (www.ielts.org)”.
Do you really need to study more English, if you are already competent in English? Most IELTS 6 students will just come to study pre-sessional course and study the degree course. If government implies IELTS 6 rules, students who come to study English will be all competent. I mean, is that too perfect?
IELTS 6 is just a little bit lower than CEFR C1. The highest of CEFR is C2. It will make all international students are using perfect English. Are we living in the perfect world?
Most bachelor degree graduates in my country just achieved around IELTS 3.5 (TOEIC reading and listening score 400-500). I am not generalised but just from my observation. You suggest that they should not come to the UK? Should they go to Australia, Canada or USA to study English instead?
I personally agree with the new government rules after 3 March. Students need to achieve a minimum of CEFR B1 (around IELTS 4) to be able to study CEFR B2 in the institutions with sponsor licence. However, I think IELTs Band 6 should be the requirement for students who want to study certificate or diplomas. Genuine certificate or diplomas require the understanding of academic English therefore students need to prove their ability to learn before being accepted to colleges. IELTS 6.5 or above are perfect bands for university students
3. I love the UK. The factors that I considered to study in the UK rather than Australia, USA or Canada are
- Lovely culture and charming places – I can still see some old things as well as new things. I must say Australia looks very new to me.
- Safe place to study
- Good transport links – easy to get around. My friends told me that I may need a car to get around in America.
- Good music, clubs and bars
- Good Sports such as footballs, F1, rugby, Cricket, and Tennis- I love to watch them. It is easier to watch here than my country.
- Good fashion
- Near Europe so I can go travel around Europe when I don’t have class.
- Etc
I just want to say that not all students would like to come here to do things in point 1-7. The UK ( your precious country) is attracted a lot of international students with numbers of reasons not just what you mentioned such as working, escaping from the poverty or planning for terrorism. On the one hand, students should be able to speak English and willing to speak English, if they want to study and live in the UK. On the other hands, if every foreign student speaks perfect English, it will be ridiculous as I said we are not living in the perfect world. Why come to study, if you already have good English.
3. I do not have any idea how to protect the UK’ borders from bogus international students. I can understand your points for why you want to imply the stricter rules for immigration system. As you have value experiences in the industry, any suggestion for this issue, in addition of “bringing IELTS 6”?
We should suggest Daniel to put them as articles. I am sure it will be useful.
Thanks again for your answers and I really enjoy the debate. Nice to hear the opinion of an English teacher on why IELTS 6.0 should be the minimum for a UK Student Visa.
This post was submitted by CKJ.
they info and story u provide about your ielts is not helpfull for us !
sory
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i like this so much…
Very, very funny argument about needing somebody to be at level 6 when u keep saying (and i agree)that they have fake or “bought” level 5.What difference does it make to anything if they are to buy a level 6 from tomorrow?the problem lies with the lack of control for the examinations/examinators.
Also i kind of like very much the fact that we worry so much on how to keep out 100 south americans when Britain is being swamped by “new” Europeans from what used to be Russia in unrestricted numbers and they are all here to work and send money home, most definitely not to learn English.
Ciao
Enrico (no levels whatsoever)
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Hi Alfred
Unfortunately the majority of collehe scame are run by those from the ex-British colony parasites. They are a real pais to so many and have no regards even for their own people.
I am currently in India on a college recruitment drive and, believe me, the sams here, in Bangladesh and Paikstan are running at full steam!
Hopefully the UKBA will continue to close doors and colleges AND now prosecute the scum that bring desrepute to our education sysytem
Daniel … what happened to my reply to the comment about English that was cricised by some illiterate who could not bead
my email properly?
Regards
Bruce
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i know that british has been colonized by india during its yeasteryears however i was amazed because at present all the schools in UK are run and owned by indians mostly bogus schools , human traficking in terms of student visa scheme. now what happen to india they were ban on student visa ,
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i would like to post a comment , i am filipino citizen from philippines, the student visa scheme here are selling like hot cakes, people here are willing to invest around 500,000php or 10,000gbp in order to come to the uk for one purpose not to study but to work, we are living in a third world country the supremacy or fight for survival and poverty is at stakes here, thats why we are biting the student visa policy by UK , in terms of english proficiency the filipinos are good at it , imagine lots of indians in UK have a bandwith score of 6 but are not fluent in english nor writing there is a leakage exam in india
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hi i wana to came uk for study
i wana know that will i be ilets for come to uk for study
i have done +2 in 2009 and 72%
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Hi Arun
What do you mean +2 and 72% for IELTS?
The IELTS testing system awards scores from 1.0 – 9.0.
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oops … Norton closed me down
2. English classes MUST be run on a testing basis. I introduced this as two of the previous scam colleges before I walked out. We issued certificates based on exams taken from Cambridge and related sources. All teachers were assessed by peers and students. In this way we kept the standards high and were able to assist both lecturers and students as appropriate. Unfortunately, MOST English course colleges use English as an easy meal ticket. Poor quality teachers are employed and there is little in the way of on-going training and support for teachers. This is an issue which the UKBA, BAC and ASIC should address.
3. I am teaching Business and English at an excellent college in London. The attendance is very high BUT the students in the business classes struggle becasue of their low level of English – as approved by the UKBA at present – many have IELTS 5 or 5.5. and some have TOEFL passes. The certificates are either fake or the examiners who ran the test were bribed or incompetent – their abilities are not up to standard. MANY will fail their exam – they have written two because of their inability to understand the questions, lectures, text book. Despite POWERPOINT and other visual aids usage MANY do no understand – this will be reflected intheir exam results – the UKBA will then pounce on the college; the course provider will lose trust in the college; the students will be further demotivated and …
4. My point is that the level must be IELTS 6 (and the college I am at is now insisting on that level as a point for admission) so that genuine students can engage in studies from a good base of English. They will also be able to cope better with academic English. Genuine students who wish to come to the UK to study (and you are one of them) can then complete IELTS 6 in their country – as I have suggested – or the colleges can start teaching posts in the sending country.
5. Sadly, not ALL students have come to study – the allure of employment is strong! The UK needs genuine students otherwise our standards will continue to drop and our reputation for GOOD education will die out – sadly! Genine students need to prove their abilities (English) to tackle their academic challenges on a sound footing.
5.1. If we continue to have illegals working here there will be serious political repercussions. If we do not tighten up on standards for the admission of students, groups like the BNP will grow in power and influence – and the anti-immigrations backlash will become stronger.
5.2. The UK does not owe anything to any foreigner who is not here for legal purposes. Students are purportedly here to study and they need to be equipped with good English to do just that.
6. Yes, the UK has so much to offer other than studying! It is great to read that you love my country and it is a great privilege hosting individuals like you. We need more who have your spirit and motivation!
I am sure that Daniel is keeping tabs on all relevant discussions in the forum. I will be sending him a Paper soon and he might publish some excerpts.
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Dear CkJ
Thank you for your well-worded comments on IELTS 6. May I reply to your input, please?
1. Students are nored and not motivated. Yes, that is true in many cases and that is the fault of a college – and should be rectified. One such method would be to have regular student feedback reports on teachers and teachng (from students. I started these at two colleges and they were most sucessful. Students fill in a form, as part of a lesson, whereby they tick boxes on the teacher, use of equipment, style of lessons, and so on. The assessment is conducted by another staff person. Another staff person assesses the teacher as well. The teacher also assesses him / herself. The results are examined by the Principal and then … IT WORKS!!!
Sadly, many colleges run English classes as an easy feeder for money. The students do not have to be tested! There are no lesson plans and little supervision (if any). Again, at the expense of being criticised – I introduced exams for English progress and the college issued appropriate certificates. Exam material was adjusted from Cambridge and other material. IT WORKED!
The scam colleges / those bordering on being visa and income producing factories do not pay enough attention to English classes; teachers and pay. The owners want to make us much money as possible and, as I was lied to at one college, “We are just starting out so we cannot pay you more than …” The two crooks who ran the college now have their own homes here – and one has a palatial residence in Pakistan PLUS a very healthy bank account! However, the police have been alerted to their whereabouts!
I started with FOUR students in one class at one college I was at. When I walked out some 18-months later, we were running three classes, averaging arounf 18 students each! The same patteren followed at the second scam college where I worked for one-year before walking out because of the dishonesty of the
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